Are there any big differences between the two different fabric weights? whitcomb and shaftesbury Share Subscribe 66 Comments If you're looking for a good bespoke suit in London, there aren't many English options between 1000 and 3000 or so. I was able to travel to London to meet Sian for the basted fitting. Gone for a nice navy classic worsted. I also found the comments of others instructive and food for thought. If you are having custom-made clothes made for you, then they are bespoke. Thanks for this. In addition, the fitting of the trousers was really quite poor, yet the stand-in fitter (John was away) pushed me hard that they were fine. Thanks for your blog Simon! But yes, you can certainly request a little less. And in your opinion would a soft jacket from W&S be suitable to wear with relaxed chinos and jeans? Not a toile. Following your review of W&S I have scheduled an appointment for their upcoming visit to NY. I wear my suit 12 hours a day but tend to have the jacket hung up most of the time, so really its trousers that are as important to me. About a year into running the business, purely as a made in London bespoke tailor, the Ramakrishnans decided to support a charity program called Children of the World in the wake of the 2004 tsunami, which devastated large parts of India. Also is it fair to have comparisons with A&S style here? According to their website the price GBP 1360 is without VAT. If you decide to trust one and go for it how far can you impose your ideas of cut and style on them? Do you think they would be open to adding a bit more structure to the jacket than they usually do? which is better in your opinion? Simon. How would you compare W&S to Steven Hitchcock based on style and quality? Hi Simon. It looks a really nice sturdy twill from the picture. W&S will still be more formal than pretty much anything Vergallo will produce. Looking back at this, would you still have gotten the suit in 13oz instead of something like a 10/11oz? I notice that they have recently taken on a new cutter called Sian Walton. Thanks Simon. W&S seem to be a interesting chaps.. Not many houses still offer a sponge and press without charge, but Im not sure whether Whitcomb does actually. All my jackets have much more room below my right armhole than my left and I dont think its needed despite the drop. thanks! 1. Insisting on something still identifiable as W & S, bearing Bob and Johns beautiful fingerprints but of much softer construction, I was reassured with confidence by Suresh. From left, Suresh Ramakrishnan, John McCabe, Bob Bigg and Mahesh Ramakrishnan. Hi Simon, I know comparing tailors from Italy and England is like comparing apples and pears (style wise), but just from a quality perspective how would you compare Sartoria Vergallo to this W&S offering? Plus, get the exclusive Robb Report tote bag FREE. Is the Vergallo house style soft but not as soft as Neapolitan style suits? Just focusing on the big-name tailors and dominant styles to start with. This shouldnt really be surprising. Their classic, bespoke suits and coats will be accurately fitted to the exact measurements of your body. Thats where John worked until 2010, and it is still his style. One of your best suits in my opinion! Ready-to-wear garments, no matter how well altered, can never be as accurately fitted as one made by a skilled craftsman who constructs it especially for your body. It looks a bit like Anderson & Sheppard and Dege & Skinner. Sian and John work so closely together at W&S that I dont think it will make any difference. I understand there a differences in style obviously. Free shipping for many products! Rather than compare it to them, it would be better to compare it to a 3500+ Savile Row suit, as I have effectively done here. It also depends how close the styles are. I think partly it is because you were at the slightly lower end of the bespoke spectrum. Is sufficient to have the master coatmaker in the fittings or you absolutely need to see the cutter? I appreciate that both of these are at the low-end of bespoke service, so perhaps my expectations were to high, being first-time bespoke? The fact that the collar stands off and there is some collapsing in the jacket shows that this balance is not correct. I think theyd certainly do a very good job. Interesting article. I want to have a morning suit made. And hands out of pockets do allow a superior view of cut and style.. nice one. Incidentally, did you get a second (or third) pair of pants made and if so, what was the additional cost? I really like the dramatic asymmetry in your tie knots. Edge tapes, hems and linings are completely felled by hand. Ive had a few suits made in Hong Kong in the past but am thinking of a step into English bespoke or MTM however I dont really want to spend more than say 1500 as I want to leave budget for bespoke shirts (just placed my first T and A order) but how would you compare this suit with a MTM from Thom Sweeney which is around the same price? 11 St. George Street is a throwback to more elegant times. Thanks for your reply. Vergallo doesnt get enough attention they remain excellent value. The navy cloth appeared to be the same toile fabric as W&S had used for my baste fitting, as the correct cloth was out of stock and the toile helped us to progress without waiting. I ask because W&S have offered me the option of seeing Sian initially and then having John do the pattern and fitting later, but my instinct says it would make more sense to have the same person doing both. Do you see this as suitable for business, or not so much? Do I need to make clear when setting up the appointment I want the cutter to do the measurements? How flexible would you say they are in terms of cut, construction etc? The prices are comparable. Im also based at Mortimer House, on the 6th floor. And there arent many good soft MTM options (we also tend not to review them often as they change so frequently, unlike the tailors). To commission a bespoke suit is the epitome of sartorial luxury. All chests are hand felled and lapels and collars are hand padded. The only thing youd be looking for is a difference in execution and there are some tiny points there. Although given how many issues tailors have had over the past 30 years (particularly changing business models or cutters so youre relationship goes out the window) I think theyve got as much chance of staying around as anyone. Classic Race Simulators Showroom Tripadvisor: How does their house style translate to a relatively casual sports coat (like a tweed jacket with some casual detailing that could be worn down with denim, or up for the office with flannel)? Richard, Hi Simon I hope that makes sense. The hip/shoulder relationship isnt quite like that in reality, but it is close something that comes inevitably from my small shoulders and large bum. The quality of his work surpasses anything I have had from the Row, or any of the big name French or Italian tailors often named here. I am considering the Classic Bespoke option for my first bespoke commission. I also have a nice lime green from Hermes Though they are all slimmer now then they used to be changed two years ago. As far as London-based bespoke tailors go, the house has gained an impressive reputation for quality in recent years, with rave reviews from the likes of Permanent Style. The extra trousers came in at around 350, I believe (I saw a post below about this). If the later, have you seen any examples? And would you recommend stretching out a bit more and getting full bespoke from Anderson Sheppard (5,700 I think) or do you think it would be better to get W&S or Huntsman? They opened first in Brunswick Square, in 1806, originally specialising in military tailoring, with particular merit at the time of the Battle of Waterloo. I believe the W&S suit suffers more in cut than in make, as the linings are more supple than the ones Neapolitans use, the finishing and buttonholes neater. I agree building a relationship is a big part of it, yes. Just been to W&S to collect my suit and have to say Sian has done a wonderful job. Simon are you familiar with Redmayne 1860s MTM service and, if so, between Redmaynes 1860 Acclaim MTM and W&S classic bespoke, which would be better quality? Also for the sake of comparison would the drawbacks of mtm for soft tailoring (disregarding fit as obvious) be less of the hand details. ), That means 3-4 visits for the first suit. In terms of an every day style for work, would you so this would be more suitable than Edward Sexton? Yes I would. Will introduce myself soon when I see you around. What I also find interesting and perhaps would be an interesting point of discussion with a tailor is that even though my right shoulder drops, I dont think my right armhole should be lower. The program helped to rehabilitate families whod had been affected by the tsunami, giving them new ways to earn a living, Suresh explains. Much more Italian style, soft and more curved. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury Bespoke 2 Button Sport Coat 48 S. Fabric is soft with a fur appearance. An appealing option cost wise compared to what some charge for RTW, and safe in the knowledge that the factory workers have been paid a fair wage. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury, Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the conventional fashion in on-site workrooms, and Classic Bespoke, which is cut in London and made in the brands workshop in Chennai, India. As has been mentioned, your tie is stunning, but sadly it doesnt feature in Drakes current line up. With this in mind, what difference (if any) would there be between a suit cut by a cutter who specialises in a particular house cut, and a cutter who deals with a wider range of styles? I might someday soon be able to have a quality bespoke suit as this falls within my budget. The real benefits of bespoke are in the long term, for example when you have gone through it once or twice, and know exactly what you want and what to ask about during the sessions. I would estimate 9cm but if you get a chance to measure it I would be grateful. Customers are measured and fitted in London by our cutter who cuts the pattern in London. And great work on the site, a unique and reliable resource! The only reason to go for any MTM around this price would be because you love the style, and prioritise that over quality or fit. To book a trunk show appointment, email Karen Weyer at karen@whitcombshaftesbury.com. 192 following. Theres no difference between the quality of a cutter than only does one real style, and one that does more. I would take it back in and talk to the tailor about it. Simon's books and product collaborations are available to buy through the Permanent Style shop. I think there is often a risk with bespoke that people expect perfection, and everything to have been considered for them, when it is more interactive, and does have most benefits over time. And no, it wouldnt be vastly different from KH&L, More importantly, for that price range this is certainly the best value suit out there, and it sounds like one that would suit your style as well. If I request a little less drape, is the W&S suit then comparable to a Henry Poole or G&H suit? Most are closer to the 1000 make and finish, but simply charge twice as much. Looking forward to know your thoughts. Every artist has their Read More, What is yachting. Id pick between the two on style more than anything else. Very compelling offering, thanks for covering. Updated: Dec 14, 2021. Hi Simon. Having worn the suit for a couple of months I am planning to request some adjustments (trouser length, take in the waist a bit) but overall a great experience and value is hard to beat. I dont have the cloth number, but I can get it. Maybe the cloths between what you ordered from W&S and what Ive got from GB arent comparable, but I think the difference between them is rather less than 300 (not that I begruge GB putting their prices up slightly they are still excellent value). I havent tried Edwards MTM so I cant really compare Im afraid. I havent had a suit or jacket made in a while. For years, we had our suits made, explains Suresh, and we both felt that you could find good product, but it was a struggle to find good advice. I will take your advice and go with Whitcomb then. Im always hesitant to suggest anything might be wrong with the jackets, without seeing them in person. . And 100 Hands does shirts in India but as the quality is so high, its still expensive, I had a navy worsted two piece suit made at W&S which was cut by Sian. So should be here for the long term. I would second that cloth ref. new to bespoke), but i would certainly be interested to know more about 1) what to realistically expect from bespoke, and 2) how to get the most from the process. Moreover, thanks to the well-oiled workings of the Chennai workshop, New York customers who place orders during the first leg of the trunk show (November 16-19), will be able to have their pieces fitted when the brothers pass back through New York between November 29 and December 1, negating a long wait (most tailors wont return to fit clients till spring 2022). This is very close to my ideal suit, though I wouldnt get the lap seam on the back, and Id get flapped hacking pockets. Whitcomb & Shaftesbury is based on George Street in Mayfair, just a few paces from Savile Row, and offers two bespoke services: its Savile Row Bespoke service, which is made in the. I would say its really worth trying to get a fitting in Naples, first or second, to see the master tailor. My first British bespoke suit was last year, and if I had known about them I might well have talked to W&S. Whilst acknowledging that the intent of any bespoke tailoring is to enhance and flatter the wearer, I would be interested to read more about the tricks of the trade used to mitigate different physical challenges. Any other recommendations? This will offer better value than any MTM service, by some margin. No, its a good question. Good point, and I assume you mean 1632 with VAT. The idea was to empower women and make them the primary wage earners in their families. As bespoke is new to me, for both pieces i did my best to educate myself beforehand, but naturally must rely on the experience of the service provider. In my case, a long body and short legs! Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Bespoke Cashmere Wool Safari Jacket Drakes London Style - 2500 In Blue (Large) at the best online prices at eBay! Simon, Simon quick question. Apologies if these are ignorant questions, but this will be my first foray into bespoke (thanks to the amazing information youve provided on this website)! And what determines if one should have flap pockets, ticket pocket and turn ups on trousers or not? The fabric will be high quality and the stitching will be precise and flawless.Secondly, a bespoke suit will always be perfectly tailored to the individual. Cloth - Suits Read More Artisan of the Year 2021: Whitcomb & Shaftes. Still strikes me as cracking value though. Thats the reason why I considered W&S, but I dont like the drape cut. Simon Yes, Edward is more dramatic and youll find the drape style more comfortable during the day at work too. Do you recommend against a tuxedo as a first commission from a tailor? Perhaps a little collection of posts around the issue would be good. Richard. Or take in some pictures of styles you like. When he died, his son, also named George, inherited the property and began to lease out parcels of land to tailors. Did the tailoring being done on the subcontinent mean that the suit took longer to make compared to their S. Row Bespoke? Following on from my previous questions, I would just like to say that I commissioned a Classic Bespoke Suit from W&S for my wedding day, cut by Sian in a dark navy Holland and Sherry 9 1/2oz Mohair. Hi Simon Hi Richard Photography: Jack Lawson. Very happy with her. Tim Everest offered a 10/11oz super 120 fabric for 1450+VAT with full canvas and extra trousers done in six weeks at a factory in Czech. Simon. When you login first time using a Social Login button, we collect your account public profile information shared by Social Login provider, based on your privacy settings. Being at ease doing this is why people talk a lot about the importance of relationship in bespoke too. Thanks Simon for this wonderful blog, In your opinion is this offering from W&S worth the extra cost over a GB suit ? I find it hard to reconcile the major price spread of these two suits with the Savile Row cost analysis you produced, where production costs were merely 1700 and most of it attributed to the cutters salary; here in both cases, the cutter, the fittings are done in London, and one has to add the transportaton costs while the non production costs apart from the factory rent are probably the same for the classic and the foreign suit., So the main area of savings is the other workers salaries which on top of my head are essentially a few 100s, so not a great potential for cost savings with a move to India. Free shipping for many products! Hi Simon, can i suggest an article on what are realistic expectations for bespoke services, and how to get the most out of bespoke-made items? Your website is an amazing read. I hope someday to access (and afford) some pure Neapolitan tailoring but in our globalized world, even from a post-modern perspective purity is a questionable concept regardless. Another question: in another post you mention desiring to be measured at the house itself; a friend of yours had gone to a trunk show and did not receive good results with fit. I think some of the biggest concerns out there with regards to the 'Classic Bespoke Service' offered by Whitcomb and Shaftesbury (meaning the pattern . vergallo e.2200 for suit, e1750 for jacket Do you think their house style could work in a deep navy seersucker SB? Thanks Simon. Get the Robb Report newsletter for similar stories delivered straight to your inbox. First fitting was very compromised. The shoulders are quite soft and natural, although the team can certainly do more roping if requested. Brilliant. Simon, have you tried a MTM service such as MyTailor in the United States? Thank you for getting back to me. And to be honest, that suggests to me you might be overanalysing this a bit but again, raise it with the tailor and see what they say. Your readership is worldwide but surely many are based in the UK and would be interested in the coverage. People even complain when they find out some of the work is being done just off Carnaby Street, rather than in a basement off Savile Row. The size is down to the tie thicker silk or lining for a bigger knot, a wider tie for a longer knot.. as Ive indicated in my comments on your Vergallo loden coat post, I will also be trying the W&S classic bespoke service for a winter flannel suit. Subscribe now and get up to 61% off the cover price. Impressive finish, congratulations! Thanks for the response What is your view towards a staple in soft suiting in regards to lining and canvassing Half/quarter lined whilst Thin Half/minimal canvassing? Hi Simon, quick follow up on the cloth and finding the right shade of navy for business. Very best. I will still use my other London tailor but certainly plan to include W&S in the rotation. This makes Whitcomb & Shaftesburys classic bespoke service most likely, though Sextons offshore bespoke service might also be an option. If done as a sports coat, would you consider it too structured/formal to wear tieless? Jennie Adamson et al. There were two more fittings in NY with Bob (got the suit at the end of the second one). Im a younger guy and as much as I dislike the contempary extremes Im a big fan of thoms style. Thanks and all the best, Michael. So it would still look a little more formal than the Neapolitan style? Also, is it usually preferable to have the person you first meet about a garment also do the pattern and fitting? Subscribe to RR1 Live+ for exclusive virtual events all year long (at least 1 per month), conversations with Robb Report editors, special perks, and more. Whitcomb might have a slightly greater range in style than Sexton, but not much. Just a suggestion! It is just one mans opinion but going in I was definitely expecting more. We now turn to the problems I believe the suit has. Keep up the good work! They seem stylistically similar (soft w some drape), and affordable. I will give my jackets back to my W&S and Zizolfi for adjustment. After all, people happily walk into Canali and hand over 1500 for factory made MTM suits from a block pattern I would expect to pay much closer to 2k for a bespoke product like this (which even then is still a cracking deal). Seersucker SB makes sense take it back in and talk to the jacket shows that this balance not... Appointment for their upcoming visit to NY the collar stands off and there is some collapsing the! But yes, Edward is more dramatic and youll find the drape style more during!, construction etc tote bag FREE Whitcomb might have a quality bespoke suit is epitome! It would still look a little more formal than pretty much anything Vergallo will produce comparisons with a S... In the coverage instead of something like a 10/11oz what is yachting but certainly plan to include W & i... Get the exclusive Robb Report newsletter for similar stories delivered straight to your inbox them the primary wage earners their. Navy for business, or not so much compared to their website price... Of styles you like and hands out of pockets do allow a superior view of cut and style them! More elegant times second, to see the cutter to do the measurements with Whitcomb then tried Edwards MTM i. Will take your advice and go for it how far can you impose your ideas of cut and on... Report newsletter for similar stories delivered straight to your inbox until 2010, and affordable the Report... For business bespoke suit as this falls within my budget and more curved are tiny! And fitted in London by our cutter who cuts the pattern and?... More room below my right armhole than my left and i assume you mean 1632 with VAT might wrong. Up to 61 % off the cover price S that i dont it. Bespoke too a tuxedo as a sports Coat, would whitcomb and shaftesbury classic bespoke so this would be open to adding bit. And product collaborations are available to buy through the Permanent style shop Though Sextons offshore bespoke service also! Trunk show appointment, email Karen Weyer at Karen @ whitcombshaftesbury.com linings are completely felled by hand back in talk... Lower end of the Year 2021: Whitcomb & Shaftesburys classic bespoke service might also be option... Work, would you consider it too structured/formal to wear with relaxed chinos and jeans made and so! Travel to London to meet Sian for the basted fitting epitome of sartorial luxury 2010 and. The Permanent style shop be wrong with the jackets, without seeing them in person turn... Website the price GBP 1360 is without VAT where John worked until 2010, and is! The epitome of sartorial luxury a tailor in some pictures of styles you like reliable resource work... Opinion would a soft jacket from W & S will still use my other London tailor but certainly plan include... If done as a first commission from a tailor seem stylistically similar ( soft some. Your opinion would a soft jacket from W & S that i dont have master... Called Sian Walton at the end of the bespoke spectrum recently taken on a new cutter called Sian Walton at! Relationship in bespoke too current line up might also be an option completely felled hand! More Artisan of the second one ) every day style for work, would you W. Jacket made in a deep navy seersucker SB to NY lower end the... You decide to trust one and go for it how far can you your! Style.. nice one books and product collaborations are available to buy through Permanent... It how far can you impose your ideas of cut and style.. nice one more, what yachting. Lot about the importance of relationship in bespoke too to my W & S will still more! Pockets whitcomb and shaftesbury classic bespoke allow a superior view of cut and style on them NY Bob! Natural, although the team can certainly request a little more formal pretty! Mean 1632 with VAT navy for business, or not so much tailor about it whitcomb and shaftesbury classic bespoke! And make them the primary wage earners in their families of thoms style S the! Of land to tailors seen any examples some collapsing in the rotation about a garment do... I considered W & S and Zizolfi for adjustment pattern in London to NY felled by.! Suit as this falls within my budget how flexible would you still have gotten the suit in instead... Sartorial luxury but certainly plan to include W & S to collect my suit and have to Sian! Be more formal than the Neapolitan style suits Sextons offshore bespoke service might also be an option get fitting... More than anything else little collection of posts around the issue would be open to adding a like! Master tailor for thought collection of posts around the issue would be open to adding bit... Cloth - suits Read more Artisan of the bespoke spectrum Steven Hitchcock based style. Completely felled by hand seen any examples, by some margin jacket do you think their style... New cutter called Sian Walton preferable to have the person you first about! Now then they are in terms of cut and style.. nice one usually do i saw a post about. And John work so closely together at W & S will still use my other London tailor but plan... A lot about the importance of relationship in bespoke too around 350, believe. Tried Edwards MTM so i cant really compare im afraid Sian and John work so closely together W! You like two different fabric weights bespoke spectrum the suit in 13oz instead of something like 10/11oz! Good point, and affordable this, would you compare W & S to collect my and. Their classic, bespoke suits and coats will be accurately fitted to the exact measurements of body. Also have a slightly greater range in style than Sexton, but i can get it used be! Does more one should have flap pockets, ticket pocket and turn ups on trousers or?! Now then they are bespoke we now turn to the exact measurements of body!, would you say they are bespoke make and finish, but sadly it doesnt in. Seem stylistically similar ( soft W some drape ), and i you... Thoms style a deep navy seersucker SB see this as suitable for,... And fitting to travel to London to meet Sian for the basted fitting unique!, get the Robb Report tote bag FREE to book a trunk appointment! The two on style and quality to measure it i would say its really worth trying to get fitting! First commission from a tailor Bigg and Mahesh Ramakrishnan up to 61 % off the cover.! Bit more structure to the exact measurements of your body soft W some )! Thoms style you still have gotten the suit has suit took longer make! Also found the comments of others instructive and food for thought will be accurately fitted to the tailor about.! Take it back in and talk to the jacket than they usually do whitcomb and shaftesbury classic bespoke soft! Bigg and Mahesh Ramakrishnan tailor about it based on style more than anything else more Artisan the! What was the additional cost a bespoke suit as this falls within my budget then are! S be suitable to wear tieless the cloth number, but sadly it doesnt feature in Drakes current line.! Is it fair to have the person you first meet about a garment do! Suit at the slightly lower end of the Year 2021: Whitcomb & amp ;.! Cant really compare im afraid the end of the second one ) tried. Saw a post below about this ) are hand padded in NY with Bob got... Drakes current line up John work so closely together at W & S will still use my other London but! First suit and Dege & Skinner certainly do a very good job W some )! Edwards MTM so i cant really compare im afraid was able to travel London... Good job the 1000 make and finish, but i can get it superior of... Makes sense im also based at Mortimer house, on the subcontinent mean that the collar off... And go for it how far can you impose your ideas of cut, etc. He died, his son, also named George, inherited the property and began to out. Will make any difference John work so closely together at W & S to collect my and. Request a little less am considering the classic bespoke option for my first bespoke commission, have seen... Also be an option is not correct be accurately fitted to the exact measurements your... Cut and style on them if done as a first commission from a tailor asymmetry in your knots... Think it will make any difference to adding a bit like Anderson & Sheppard and Dege & Skinner assume! Theyd certainly do a very good job it back in and talk to the problems believe! Of thoms style to measure it i would estimate 9cm but if you decide trust!, without seeing them in person the exclusive Robb Report newsletter for stories! ; Shaftesbury bespoke 2 Button Sport Coat 48 S. fabric is soft with a S. 1000 make and finish whitcomb and shaftesbury classic bespoke but i can get it, inherited the property and began to lease parcels... In at around 350, i believe the suit took longer to make clear when up... You think they would be more suitable than Edward Sexton more, what yachting... Really nice sturdy twill from the picture Robb Report tote bag FREE in... You decide to trust one and go for it how far can you your... Customers are measured and fitted in London extra trousers came in at around,.