Ballistics and Drop for the .308 Winchester (7.62mm NATO) Cartridge Type: Rifle Height: 2.015" Width: 0.473" Average FPS: 2681 Average Energy: 2617 Average Gr: 164 Recoil: 1.95 Power Rank: 4.4 of 20 The .308 Winchester / 7.62x51mm NATO was created in 1952 and is based on the .300 savage round a round created in 1920. was measured from the end of the barrel back to the breech face. tweet/email or post a comment on the blog - one of us will double-check the original var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text/javascript'; ga.async = true; In The truth about barrel length, muzzle velocity and accuracy the author uses four different barrel lengths, 13.5, 16, 18 and 26.5, and eight different cartridges. Obviously this is a different cartridge type, but also our 6mmBR barrel end length was 5 longer than Rifleshooter.coms .308 Win start length. (function() { At 1000 yards a .308 Winchester will have dropped around 400 inches (30 feet) where it has lost 55% of its velocity. No, personally, it seems like a silly idea to me. Short Rifle, Long Range: Testing our 16.5 308 Remington 700 out to 635 yards, 16.5 Inch 308 Winchester Precision Rifle: Summary of a Short Rifle. This explains why most civilian firearms skip the NATO rounds in favor of Winchesters big moneymaker. 'https://ssl' : 'http://www') + '.google-analytics.com/ga.js'; I think the value of this data is worth the time, effort and expense. This cartridge has enjoyed a massive following from both the military and civilian market. So it's not a shocker that the .308 would be a good cartridge. How much velocity do you think was lost, on average, for each 1 reduction in barrel length? Lots of fun and frustration especially if you forget to write it all down! Did it really hurt to shoot a short 308 pistol? Contrary to the popular urban legend, 7.62 NATO casings do indeed have thicker walls than .308 Winchester brass despite their almost identical external dimensions. The .308 Winchester round shoots pretty flat out to 200 yards when it starts to drop. Your trustworthy Task & Purpose editorial staff is here to clear things so you can stop worrying about blowing your nose off each time you go to pull the trigger. Powder burn rates can also make a difference. We'd like to personally and specifically thank Pat Childs at Fin & Feather in Iowa City, as he not only helped get most of our Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. This resulted in a velocity loss of 137 feet/second. Since we first launched BBTI in November of 2008, it has become a primary reference tool for firearms enthusiasts of all stripes and from around the globe. Velocity loss can be more extreme with shorter barrel lengths (and bigger cartridges). The testers described their procedure as follows: Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. The new(ish) .300 Blackout bears a similar (albeit rare) designation of 7.6235, and the standard Russian sniper round is the 7.62x54R. _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); Or not. Barrel length, Barrel length and velocity, Cartridge Selection .308 Win Barrel Cut-Down Test: Velocity vs. Barrel Length, .308 Win Barrel Chop Test: How Velocity Changes with Length, RifleShooter.com .308 Win Barrel Cut-Down Velocity Test, Surprising Results in .223 Rem Barrel Cut-Down Velocity Test, .223 Rem Velocity by Barrel Length Cut-Down Test Results. By ammo type, the average loss per inch was: 24.6 (Win 147 FMJ), 22.8 (IMI 150 FMJ), 20.9 (Fed GMM 168gr), and 22.5 (Win 180PP). In experienced hands it can hit a 1,000 yard target. Brian Smyth Its global proliferationin big game hunting rifles is matched by few other cartridges. I bought a quart. The Model Seven uses the same barrel dimensions as the 700, so unscrewing the barrel mounting it on the Model Seven (checking head space of course) provided me a serviceable pistol . We did all the work. That works out to an average loss of 22.7 fps per inch. This was noticeable from 19 inches and below. According to multiple non-scientific studies, the average .308 case weighs in around 160 to 170 grains each, while 7.62 brass usually comes in at over 180 grains apiece. ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? The testers observed: The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel., How the Test Was Done All in all, this was a very thorough test by the folks at RifleShooter.com. The cuts were made in one-inch intervals with a rotary saw. I actually had this happen on two different mags. The same barrel was then mounted on a bolt action pistol, and data was gathered for the same four cartridges from 14 to 6 in 223 Remington/5.56mm NATO Barrel length versus Velocity- Short Barrels- 6 to 14 inches. For instance, when calculating maximum point blank zero for a 8 target, the projectile will never rise more than 4 above the line of sight or fall 4 below it. I looked down at my right hand as it trembled, it was cut open in half a dozen places from a combination of recoil, sharp edges and dry skin. Nearly every target shooter had his teeth cut on a 308 Winchester. Here are a few pictures [], Without a doubt, the crown of a rifle is essential foraccuracy. Temperature was different, during this stage, it was 40F, 7 degrees cooler than the 47F I recorded during the initial study. Shilen .308 1:10 match grade stainless steel unturned barrel blank, Federal, 308 Winchester Gold Medal 168 Grain Matchking BTHP, Winchester, 308 Winchester Super-X 180 Grain Power-Point, Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. Troubleshooting seized ejectors. For this stage of the experiment, Ive taken the same barrel used in the rifle length experiment and mounted it to a bolt action pistol built on a virgin Remington Model Seven receiver. The rifle was chambered with a SAAMI specification 308 Winchester reamer made by Dave Manson. So, the natural question is this: can you shoot 7.62 ammo through a .308-chambered firearm? rifle, you should be fine firing any modern commercial .308 Win. Acknowledgements. Once data was gathered for each cartridge at a given barrel length, the rifle was cleared and the bolt was removed. Red Oak, White, or Chestnut for Deer Herd? All 7.6251 rounds are cool for use in the proper NATO weapon, but 7.62x39 is the original caliber of the infamous AK-47. Using one of the many bullet drop calculators available on various ammunition manufacturer websites, we can measure different bullets and distances easily. These graphs assume a 1.75 height of the optic over the bore and weather conditions of 59F. This resulted in a velocity loss of 118 feet/second. The short barrels gas out pretty quickly. American Eagle (Federal) Full Metal Jacket Boat-Tail, 150gr. Out of the 4 recording I made, only two frames contained muzzle flash. The rifle is made safe and empty with the bolt removed and the barrel is cut back, 1 at a time. photo link: http://rifleshooter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/custom-16.5-rem-700-308.jpg. So what works best? Thanks for the kinds words about the 308 and 300 Win barrel length posts. The barrel was cut off using a cold saw. Yes, I do. The barrel length for a 308 can be anywhere from 16 to 24 inches, while the barrel length for a AK-47 in caliber is typically 16 inches. data is provided purely for entertainment purposes - to better facilitate arguments Looking for a two-minute summary of the differences between 7.62x51mm NATO and .308 Winchester? 0. When that happens Ill post a link there. By The results of those tests can be found on our blog. Comparing the data from the 30 shot strings (28 2824 and 16.5 2555) to the 5 shot strings (28 2823 and 16.5 2561) I found a loss of 269 ft/sec (23.4 ft/sec per inch) as the barrel was cut. In the spirit of my last two posts on empirical data of barrel length and velocity,223 Remington/5.56 NATO, velocity versus barrel length: A man, his chop box and his friends rifleand300 Winchester Magnum: How Does Barrel Length Change Velocity- A 16 300 Win Mag?, I built a custom rifle on a Remington 700 short action to cut back its barrel one inch at a time and measure the velocity with four different types of ammunition. Here is our 308 Winchester ballistics chart page, where we feature info from Federal, Hornady, Remington, and Winchester. In the past 20 plus years (Im getting old) of shooting stuff-120mm tank rounds, machine guns, AT4 missiles and everything in between- this was possibly the coolest Ive fired to date. The testers observed: "The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, 'muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel'." How the Test Was Done The testers described their procedure as follows: "Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. Whether the shooter is stretching his rifles legs on F-Class competition or competing in a Tactical Rifle match, an accurate rifle helps a shooter achieve []. Published Mar 29, 2021 12:55 PM EDT. The 6.5 Grendel's common 123 grain bullet offers a muzzle velocity of 2,580 fps, muzzle energy of 1,818 ft lbs, and ballistic coefficient of 0.506. The testers observed: "The Berger Reloading manual says for the 308 Winchester, 'muzzle velocity will increase (or decrease) by approximately 20 fps per inch from a standard 24 barrel'." How the Test Was Done The testers described their procedure as follows: "Ballistic data was gathered using a Magnetospeed barrel mounted ballistic chronograph. The barrel did heat up during firing. var _gaq = _gaq || []; Average velocity and standard deviation were logged for each round. With modern materials and powders, it would be great to see whether a 300 Win Mag on a short barrel could be made to group out to 1000 yards. For antelope hunters on the Wyoming plains and snipers providing overwatch in the Hindu Kush, there is no difference. 22" is optimum for the 308,Longer will get more velocity, but at a price. This was an average decrease of 77.6 feet/second per inch of barrel length. We also have a 223 and 7 rem mag up there. Hydra-Shok JHP: Speer 200 gr. 308 Winchester/ 7.62x51mm NATO Comparison of velocity data. Remington Model Seven Actions are available! cylinder gap + The barreled action was then removed from the chassis, the barrel cut back one inch, reinstalled and fired again for the next set of data. Yes, I am very impressed. Here are some pics: I get this every so often. This was an average decrease of 81.7 feet/second per inch of barrel length. Velocity was about 10 FPS below that of my 30 Border. been much more difficult and perhaps impossible. Wind Direction is: 3.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 10.0 Miles per hour. It fires a .312-inch-diameter bullet as opposed to a .308-inch-diameter bullet and operates at 45,000 psi as opposed to 40,000. When you confine that chemical reaction into a space half the size of a pen cap with only one weak point, the base of the bullet, that intense pressure has the ability to propel a chunk of lead roughly the size of your pinky nail up to a mile with deadly effect. First, lets talk about pressure. It seems like the 7.62x39mm Russian performance is optimum at a 16 barrel length. He provides Task & Purpose readers with coverage of the best EDC and outdoor gear, although he has been known to write how-to articles and a few other goodies from time to time. Would be more interesting to see maybe 35 barrel down to 28 Have always heard that barrels quit increasing in velocity after 34. .277 Fury has a -41 inch drop at 500 yards . The vast majority of rifles, carbines, and pistols chambered in .308 Winchester can safely sling 7.62 lead downrange and extract the thicker casings despite the longer headspace. At 10-inches, muzzle velocity hasn't reached its peak. And more importantly, will one blow up a gun in your face when used in the other? Take this into consideration when comparing calibers using our Headspace was measured at 1.633+ (.003 over minimum). Turning a sporter contour rifle barrel from a blank, 6.5 Creedmoor loads: 107 SMK IMR 8208 XBR and 142 SMK Superformance 6.5 Creedmoor made a name for itself based on performance with the 120-142 gr. About the short rifles, Ive written quite a bit about 16 308s: http://rifleshooter.com/2015/02/the-16-inch-308-winchester-bolt-action-rifle/. When we cut our 6mmBR barrel down from 33 to 28, we only lost about 8 FPS per inch. 308 Winchester Barrel Length and Velocity: Winchester 147 grain FMJ, 7.62x51mm NATO (308 Win) Barrel Length and Velocity: IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ, 308 Winchester Barrel Length and Velocity: Federal 168 grain Gold Medal BTHP, 308 Winchester Barrel Length and Velocity: Winchester Super X 180 grain Power-Point, The truth about barrel length, muzzle velocity and accuracy, Effect of Barrel Length on the Muzzle Velocity and Reportfrom a Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54R Rifle, 308 Winchester H4895 Reduced loads, 168 SMK and 150 Pro-Hunter, Installing an External Bolt Stop/Release on a Remington 700, Building a Custom Precision Rifle: Deviant 6.547 Lapua, Chambering a rifle for an Ackley Improved Cartridge, Accuracy International AICS-AX 2.0 Chassis System Review: Initial Thoughts, 308 Winchester load development: Sierra .308 195 gr. We (well, Jim K, Tight tolerances increase machine efficiency, while loose tolerances allow for more play in a part. Yes, I did for the 223 post. One has to remember some times taking off that extra inch spoils that barrel and day! Try these too.. Stir crazy, I couldnt wait to get outside. Until then, stay safe. And if you think you could do better, feel free to spend the money The cut off saw works better than the reciprocating saw and the hack saw, plus it feels more scientific. Compare that to a 5.56 Ball M193 round's 55 grain bullet, which delivers a . performance comparable to the proven .30-06 but with a shorter overall length, the Army experimented with a variant of the .300 Savage that is designated the T65, a good two years before the 7.6251 saw the Pentagons official green light, NATO also adopted the new American cartridge, the newly-adopted M14, the first American battle rifle chambered in 7.62x51mm, check out this article by Bison Ballistics, For more information on headspace, check out Oleg Volks excellent write-up at Cheaper Than Dirt, an association of the nations leading manufacturers of firearms, ammunition and components, measured in PSI, fractions of an inch, and millimeters, the nominal difference is around 12,000 PSI, although in practice, that number is closer to 4,000, Elasticity describes a materials ability to expand and contract, while plasticity refers to a materials ability to be stretched into a new shape without breaking (under reasonable amounts of stress), handle the inevitably looser tolerances of ammunition manufactured by different NATO members, The 7.6251 NATO chamber is imperceptibly longer than the .308 Winchester, extending between 0.006 and 0.010 inches beyond the .308 SAAMI specs, can cause significant damage to your magazine, chamber, and/or person, While most modern 7.6251-chambered firearms are specced to safely handle .308 cartridges, The U.S. Army lists the 7.62s effective range (and thus, the .308s range) as topping out at 800 meters, but in the spirit of interservice rivalry, the Marine Corps top brass raised the Army two and cites 1,000 meters as the rounds max effective range. The 7.62 NATO was designed with two key factors in mind: the ability to facilitate smoother insertion and extraction of rounds during automatic fire, and the ability to handle the inevitably looser tolerances of ammunition manufactured by different NATO members. By firing the cartridges as soon as they were chambered, I attempted to reduce the effect of the hotchamber on muzzle velocity. As always, Big Army inefficiency slowed down testing and evaluation and, in the meantime, Winchester got hold of the new cartridge dimensions. I think he may be misquoting his source. The short answers to these questions are yes and maybe. I fired 30 rounds of IMI Samson 150 grain FMJ at 28 and 16.5 and recorded the results. numbers. Typical 308 ballistics chart (long range match shooting) Ballistics chart generated in Shoot! The latter has nearly twice the propellant, and is therefore better able to fell very distant game. IMI 150 grain FMJ 7.62x51m NATO data was gathered down to a 6 barrel length. To learn more about how I made this modification, see the Project Guns section of this site. The 308 is slightly more powerful and has a longer range. Elasticity describes a materials ability to expand and contract, while plasticity refers to a materials ability to be stretched into a new shape without breaking (under reasonable amounts of stress). A Many have noted the 308 Win's shortcomings, often attributing a great deal of its popularity to mere tradition. He,he. Due to ammunition constraints, data for the Winchester 147 grain FMJ and Federal 168 grain Gold Medal was gathered until 8 and Winchester 180 grain Power-Point 9. Get the latest in military news, entertainment and gear in your inbox daily. Cartridge casings are most often made of brass due to its elasticity and plasticity. Obviously, pressure, case wall thickness, and headspacing work together in such a way as to make the 7.6251 NATO and the .308 Winchester unique cartridges despite their very obvious similarities. (More powder and more pressure). In fact the .308 Winchester 165gr bullet is traveling faster at 1000 yards than the .223 or 7.62x39mm at just 500 yds. Prior to testing the barrel, I turned it straight to remove the taper and cut grooves at 1 increments along the tube. If you have a newer 7.62 rifle, such as the civilian SCAR 17 or an AR-10 type carbine, always double-check with the manufacturer to determine whether or not you can safely chuck .308 rounds downrange. The muzzle blast was so violent, it chopped open my Edgewood bag when it got too close. Temperature was 47 F.. JHP: Cor Bon 225 gr. _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']); Two frames contained muzzle flash and empty with the bolt was removed the testers described procedure. Or not the infamous AK-47 ], Without a doubt, the rifle was with. Can measure different bullets and distances easily so violent, it was 40F, 7 degrees cooler than 47F... With shorter barrel lengths ( and bigger cartridges ) in a velocity loss of FPS! 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